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if anybody's got any extra paypal money, please help out this organization and buy some stuff:


We're fighting a really nasty battle over the marriage/civil union amendment here in Kansas and can use all the help we can get. PLUS, the nifty multi-colored bracelets we've got on there are dead sexy and make no mention of Kansas!


( 6 comments — Leave a comment )
Feb. 21st, 2005 12:39 am (UTC)
It makes me wanna die...
Space-goddess, I've held my tongue long enough.

I dont know if you've already been through this with someone, I rarely read the comments on people's journals, so if you have, then forgive me.

I have noticed that the big thing with the Kansas Marriage Amendment is "It's not what you think it is."

Now, I understand that the Midwest may not be ready for the images that come along with gay marriage. That is totally expected. But doesn't it bother you from an ethical standpoint that the only chance you have of "banning the ban" is to come around from behind and convince people that it's not about gays, when really, it fundamentally and most importantly, is?

Come to think of it, I have seen the pictures of you marching behind a banner in the colours of the lib rainbow, and I know you're a fairly liberal example of the Midwestern, Christian Republican, but I can't remember an entry you've talked about this in, so far, where it hasn't seemed, somehow, that you are supporting this cause despite its non-offensive and bigot-friendly visage.

Being in California, I have blinders to the ignorance that plagues many "red" states, and I can't imagine life in a state that was so hateful of gays that the liberals have to trick the populous into voting for gay rights by convincing them it's not for gay rights. What happened to standing up for your morals, no matter how offensive to others? It's like the Civil Rights Movement saying "If we keep being shitty to blacks, it's going to eventually lead to having to be shitty to ourselves, so let's just let them have this one, so WE can be comfortable."

Please let me know what I'm misunderstanding. I can't imagine that this cause is really as narrow as I'm interpreting.

Feb. 21st, 2005 01:16 am (UTC)
Re: It makes me wanna die...
always good to hear another opinion.

The reason that "It's not what you think" is our big message is because 99% of the people think that there's an election on April 5th to ask people what they think of gay marriage. They're wrong. Gay marriage is illegal and has been since 1867. It doesn't matter what the vote is, we will not have gay marriage. Most people don't get that yet.

Second, the ban limits all "incidents" of marriage to a couple who is in a legal marriage. The purpose of this clause is to ban civil unions, but it's so screwed up that in other states with similar bans it's been used for everything from restricting power of attorney to arguing against domestic violence protections (see website for detailed information).

Third, we can't reach out to moderates based on "don't be mean to gays!" because most people aren't gay, don't care about gays, and aren't going to vote on something they perceive as a gay issue. If we're going to convince anyone we're right, we've got to get them on the "unintended consequences of paragraph B" thing.

Millions of Kansans who are perfectly fine with civil unions are being shown this amendment and told, "If you don't vote for this, we'll have gay marriage." So they'll vote against it. I know, I've talked to them, and when I tell them there's a lot more to it than just gay marriage they get on my side. But until then, we have to keep thrusting the slogan in front of people.

They think it's about keeping families the same. They think it's about an issue that doesn't effect them. They think a Yes vote is the right, moral thing to do.

Maybe in California you can tell people to love their gay neighbor and vote no, but this is definitely not california. People here are very uncomfortable with gays. So we'll take whatever angle we can get to fight this amendment, even if it has to be a little different.
Feb. 21st, 2005 01:52 am (UTC)
Re: It makes me wanna die...
And, I might add, we're not the only sort of group to do this "alternative angle" fight. Just look at all the feminist groups and their "March for Women's Lives!" and stuff like that when really, they're just being pro-choice. They tell us that in a world without abortion, women are in medical danger (true) when really abortion should be legal just because it should be.
Feb. 23rd, 2005 10:35 pm (UTC)
Why the fight in Kansas will not work
I hate to say it... but living in kansas and seeing how everything is going, the amendment is going to pass.
first reason, apparently it was more important for the house to make sure this vote was on the ballot, then to make sure the Kansas Education system was fixed. (It makes me question the real values of the coalitions pushing this bill since apparently making homosexual marriage unconstitutional is more important then making sure the children of this state have funding for education, like you said, it is already not legal in kansas for the marriage, but they have to make darn sure it doesn't happen)

second reason, kansas in majority votes with their party, not their values, and their party is telling them to vote for the ban (I know the governor is a Dem, but that is a vary rare instance)

third, it is the fad right now... and kansas is not the ones to break fads by any means.

and last, kansas is so incredibly conservative for the most part, that anything to show the conservatism kansas does two fold. I mean, We were the last state to do away with prohibition..

But on the good note, Kansas isn't the worse by far, Arkansas went as far to make all text books define marriage between a man and woman. but that wasn't good enough, they (are trying)to make sure that homosexuals cant have kids, by making sure that no single person can adopt a child. Yes, thats right, they are so afraid of "gays turning kids gay" that they are making sure that absolutely no single person can adopt a child or serve as a foster parent... their foster system is already in a horrible state, but by golly making sure that more kids aren't "turned gay" is more important.

What is the point of all the rambling I am doing? The point is that the vote is going to pass unfortunately... so am I saying that you should give up the fight? not by any means... but what I am saying is that maybe you should start planning the next phase of the plan... which in my mind would be figuring out how to make a legal civil union between people of the same sex, and how to protect their rights, and to inform people that it is not violating the rights of any other person. I think that we all know that in this time of fear and conservatism, that the country (in most) will do anything that the people they put their faith in, or they believe in, will tell them to do. (which in my opinion you should only put your faith in God, but that is just me). One day they will be treated with more rights, throughout the history of country many harsh decisions have been overturned... (once again, Prohibition), so maybe we should fight and believe because it will not happen on its own, but that is just my opinion.
Feb. 25th, 2005 11:50 am (UTC)
Re: Why the fight in Kansas will not work
well, civil unions will be illegal now too, with this amendment.

we're kind of with you but this vote is incredibly important. if it passes with 80% like in Missouri, everyone... judges, lawmakers, leaders... will know that nobody gives a shit about gay rights in this state. No one will ever listen to our cause again because they'll know it's political suicide. On the other hand, if it's just 60%, our chances change dramatically. So if you live in Kansas and have time to fight, join in the fight.

Kansas used to be progressive. We were a non-slave state, we gave women the right to vote before the whole country had to. I think if the pendulum swings back to the left we have a chance to return to our roots.
Feb. 25th, 2005 08:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Why the fight in Kansas will not work
Don't get me wrong, I am completely on your side and I support everything you are doing, and I am voting against the amendment. And you are exactly right about the pendulum in the state of Kansas. Although, the one thing that the pendulum has always based on here was Morals of people, and in this state most of the residents morals are based solely from church.

So here is my prediction for what it is worth, the bill will pass, probably about 78 percent or so (it seems like a high number and I hope it isn't by that much, but it sounds rational for this state) and in about 6 to 8 years that swing of that pendulum will come back and the "D" word will start to ring, and the good old phrase unconstitutional will be thrown around by the supreme court. And then about 10 years from now, the entire... disbelief will set in, the "I cant believe that people felt that way" like how women were treated, minorities, and asian americans during world war II, native americans, and list keeps on going. But in the end, the right thing will definitely happen, the only question is how fast can we speed it along?
( 6 comments — Leave a comment )

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