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debate fuel

There's another website debate on homosexuality, and the pedophilia issue has come up. Oh yes, don't let your young boys go around gay men... they'll want to rape them!

The problem with debates on this issue is that there are no real statistics out. Yes, there've been boys raped by men. But can we really call these men "homosexual"? I can't see how you can call a man gay if he's never had sex with a man before... it just doesn't add up. But all the statistics I find are either from fundamentalist christian web sites ("burn 'em all!") or GayPrideAndRainbows'R'us.org (or similar sites). It's an impossible issue to debate.

The gay sites say that 20% of the population is gay. The conservatives say it's less than 1%. That's screwed up, too.

Anyway, if you talk to gay people about this issue they look at you like you're nuts. A heterosexual is a heterosexual. A homosexual is a homosexual. A pedophile is a pedophile (and screwed up in the head, to boot). If a woman has sex with a 12 year old boy, she's not heterosexual, she's fucked up. But for some reason, if a man has sex with a 12 year old boy, he's part of that group of homosexuals, who we shouldn't allow in schools, churches, scout troops, or, apparently, out of their houses.

Debate just sucks, I don't even like it. Okay, the whole point of this entry was to say that if anyone can find some reasonable, logical statistics, not driven by one side or the other, that clear up this issue, I'd love to be pointed towards them.

Comments

( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
parcimony
Jun. 20th, 2003 04:11 pm (UTC)
You're exactly right. On the rare occasions I get in argument and someone equates pedophilia with homosexuality I ask them if they find children of the opposite sex sexually attractive since they are heterosexual.
(Deleted comment)
spacefem
Jun. 20th, 2003 04:17 pm (UTC)
Re: I always think of it this way....
ah yes! i needed to see that again.
olithered
Jun. 20th, 2003 04:25 pm (UTC)
Well I won't be touching that one with a barge pole.

But "burn" looks a lot like "bum" in the font I'm using :-)
angry_amy
Jun. 20th, 2003 05:37 pm (UTC)
i am not sure exactly where to find stats about the population of gay vs straight, but it is possible that you can find that info on the us census website (at least for us stats). the drawback of that is that people tend to underreport the sexual orientation issue.

as for stats about victimization.... there are stats in the NCVS (national crime and victimization survey) the NCVW (national crime and victimization of women survey), the us census, and i believe there is also a survey that is done voluntarily by police departments.

all of these research stats have their flaws, and it is commonly believed in the sociological world that the NCVS and the NCVW are the most accurate of the 2 because they are entirely anon.

i would need to do a little digging, but i think i still have some of my "family violence" and "psych of sexual abuse" texts laying around. those would give stats (with more accurate referances as recent as jan 02, and maybe even some websites)
tiwonge
Jun. 20th, 2003 05:51 pm (UTC)
I can't see how you can call a man gay if he's never had sex with a man before.
Can you call him heterosexual if he's never had sex with women? I guess this makes four categories of sexuality: homosexual, hetereosexual, bisexual, and virgin.
Oh, sorry. I responded before I finished reading your post. You meant that pedophile and homosexual are two diferent category of sexuality, and just because somebody is a pedophile doesn't make him gay.

The statistic that's often cited (I think 10% is the standard number that's cited) is from the Kinsey report which has several flaws. First, it's 55 years old, and perhaps in a more libertine society, is a bit outdated that way. Second, and more seriously, the population he selected was not random (and, it appears, a large number of them were prisoners accused of sexual crimes). Too, it appears (from just researching it on the internet) that the way the questions were asked, the researchers presupposed sexual activity of all kinds and so the answers would be skewed towards that.

More recent studies have shown homosexuality closer to 2-3% of the population, slightly higher among men than among women, I believe. To me, this statistic is more credible than 10%. (I've never seen any as high as 20%.)
sporkopolis
Jun. 20th, 2003 07:33 pm (UTC)
statistics...
suck.

No, really... you know very well that any moron can manipulate the data population and make it say whatever the hell they want.

You don't want statistic, you want the hard numbers and un-interpreted facts... and ya know what? People don't like to share such things, because then you'd be better able to think for yourself... and, damnit, we can't have that, can we?
imnotsatan
Jun. 21st, 2003 05:53 am (UTC)
There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics. You can't just say that any percent of people are gay. In some places, it's probably 1%. In others ::cough::whereilive::cough::, it's closer to 20%.

Warning: If the above made no sense, it's because it's 7:54AM, and I've been up since noon yesterday.
(Deleted comment)
angry_amy
Jun. 21st, 2003 11:11 am (UTC)
in the US (at least) crime and victimization statistics say that well over half of all perpetrators of sexual offenses are women.

and of those who are male the number of homosexual men in the mix is strikingly low.
katlynel
Jun. 21st, 2003 11:27 am (UTC)
Perhaps we should outlaw heterosexuality, since straight men molest little girls.
angry_amy
Jun. 21st, 2003 11:46 am (UTC)
while we are at it, maybe we should just outlaw children in general. apparently if both men and women, strait and gay molest kids, then it must be the kid's fault and we should just outlaw them altogether?
homunculus
Jun. 21st, 2003 10:49 pm (UTC)
LOL. outlawing kids. good one.
kart
Jun. 21st, 2003 11:54 am (UTC)
Maybe it's because conservative people classify both homosexuality and pedophelia in the "wrong" category, yet they somehow get the two confused.

A lot of peds are gay, too, although that doesn't mean that all gay men are peds!
vesme
Jun. 23rd, 2003 06:04 pm (UTC)
My grandmother didn't want me to join syncronized swimming because the instructor was gay. She thought the instructor would be a bad influence or something.
theyneedseven
Jun. 27th, 2003 07:56 am (UTC)
That's dumb... I don't understand people like that at all. My ex told her mom that she dated me (after we broke up), so her mom told me she basically can't even look at me anymore. She might catch the gay! As if she doesn't already have a bit of it... Sad thing is, she always listens to her mommy...

Anyway, I hate this issue, for the exact reasons spacefem's given. You can't find any unbiased opinion about it.

And as for the percentage... I'd say it's about 5-15%... but that's just me guessing. And for the most part, I don't really care. Homosexuals exist, and there's nothing wrong about it, end of story.
( 14 comments — Leave a comment )

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